High idle then dies with throttle...plus other questions

[mhaserodt]

Stock 2000 Tiger w/ 7,600 miles.  And I'm sorry in advance for such a long post.  :)

I recently took the tank off to do a number of things so I'm having difficulty sorting this out.  

I replaced the plastic fuel connectors with the Team Triumph kit.  When I did this, I snapped one of the old connectors off in the fuel plate.  I couldn't get it cleaned up very well, so I found a cheap, complete tank on Ebay from a 2003 Tiger.  I swapped out the fuel plate only.  Bike Bandit showed matching part numbers and everything fit fine.   While I was at it I swapped out the fuel level sensor since mine kept getting stuck. I have no fuel leaks.

I removed the airbox and found that one of the air intake trumpets had gotten pinched at some point,  and wasn't sealing right around the throttle body.  I have a new one on order, so I haven't replaced it yet.  It was running fine before even with the trumpet being pinched.

The barometric pressure sensor is there, but the corrugated tube that connects it to the elbow on the airbox is broken.  Again it was running fine with this broken.

The three corrugated tubes that run from the throttle bodies to the EVAP were all broken and not connected to the EVAP.  It's a non-California bike.  I'm pretty certain I didn't do this, so I assume it was running fine with it like this.

I also flushed and refilled the coolant.

I also replaced the clutch adjuster screw at the lever because mine was snapped.

So, here's the issue.  I hooked everything back up and started the bike.  It ran up to 4,000 rpm, then after a few moments kind of settled around 3,500 rpm.  If I turned the throttle, the rpms would decrease.  Almost like it was running backward.  It would completely cut out at about 1/4 throttle.  I shut the bike off, and though maybe I connected the fuel lines wrong, or something, and switched them around, and still had the same problem.

So first, and most important question.  What did I do wrong to screw up how it's running?

Second question.  How important is having the barometric pressure sensor connected to the airbox?  Should I order a new one or just tape it back together?

Third question.  Should I order new tubes to reconnect the throttle bodies to to EVAP?  

Fourth question.  Which way are the fuel fittings supposed to go?  If I'm sitting on the bike, the line that some out of the right side of the fuel rail should go on the top or the bottom?

[KuzzinKenny]

Hey mhaserodt !! looks like yer havin a bit of bovver  :?  just looked at the Tri/manual for 2001 and it shows the fuel pipes like this, from the tank plate the lower is the outlet and goes to the right side of the fuel rail, from the left of the rail is the return to the tank and that goes to the top connector. left and right is sittin on bike !!

pics of throttle bodies here ( but for an 06 model )......

http://www.tigertriple.com/forum/viewto ... tle+bodies (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,9778&highlight=throttle+bodies)

KK

ps you should get a cable and plug into yer laptop an see wat error codes are there !!

[John Stenhouse]

The fuel line work either way round, that's not your problem.

The corrugated pipes to the evap is where I would start, they all need to be sealed and connected other wise the stepper motor for the idle air mixture will be completely screwy.

Just looked again, you say it's not a cali bike so there should be no evap on it, what are the pipes connected to then? Is it a little black and white plastic part that sits in the airbox when it's on? If so that is your stepper motor for the idle air control. The pipes to that need to be sealed and also the seal between that and the airbox should be good too. Start there

[Timbox2]

Yep +1 for what John says, the corrugated pipes, It aint gonna run without them sealed to the stepper.

[iansoady]

Another +1. Effectively those pipes are bypassing the throttle butterflies giving the high idle. When you open the throttle the mixture will be too weak hence the dying.

[Bixxer Bob]

And when you've done all that do the 12 minute tune to reset your trims or you'll still be running on trims that are way out for your newly-fixed idle system

[mhaserodt]

Just looked again, you say it's not a cali bike so there should be no evap on it, what are the pipes connected to then? Is it a little black and white plastic part that sits in the airbox when it's on? If so that is your stepper motor for the idle air control. The pipes to that need to be sealed and also the seal between that and the airbox should be good too. Start there

Yup, that'd be it.  It's the stepper motor, not the EVAP.  I was looking at the diagrams wrong, I guess.

I must have cracked and knocked them off putting the airbox back on.  Though I think it was just a matter of time before they were toast, since they were so brittle anyhow.  I will get those replaced, and hopefully get it running right again.  I'll make sure to report back.  

Thanks for all the help!

[mhaserodt]

I finally got the parts in, and replaced the vacuum hoses.  It seems to have taken care of the original problem.

Now it idles too low, and will die if I hold the throttle open.  It was doing this before, where it would sometimes die as I was coming to a stop, but it's worse now.  From a little searching here it looks like it could be an issue with the stepper, or possibly the barometric pressure sensor.  I didn't have a chance to actually ride it, or give it a proper 12 min tune, so that's the next thing to try.  I've also got a cable on order to peek at the ECU.

[iansoady]

It's probably tried to adjust the fuel trim based on the situation with the leaky pipes. With a bit of luck the 12 min tune will help.

[Bixxer Bob]

If it won't run to do the 12 min tune, you can reset things manually once your cable arrives.

[mhaserodt]

Got busy, and forgot all about this post.  Oops  :oops:

I've got the cable now, but I haven't had the time to mess with it lately.

Anyhow, the 12min tune seems to indicate that I shouldn't touch anything while it runs.  Because it won't stay running, is it going to have much negative effect if I hold the throttle open just enough to keep it in normal idle range?

[metalguru]

In your situation it would be best to set up TuneEcu and reset the tps that way.May be an idea to read your installed map BEFORE altering anything, just in case.
Do the reset on the Speed Control aswell.

[mhaserodt]

In your situation it would be best to set up TuneEcu and reset the tps that way..

I tried to do the 12 min tune over the weekend, and it didn't change anything.  The previous owner told me it has the TOR tune even though it has the stock pipe.  In talking to him while I was buying it, it sounds like his local dealer may have tweaked it a little too, so I'm not sure what tune it really has.

I wonder if it dove have a custom tune, if the change in environment could have anything to do with it.  The bike was originally sold and spent its first 11 years in Southern Florida.  I bought it and brought it to Central Ohio.  The issues didn't show up until it started getting colder up here.  It's probably just coincidence though.  

So, I'm going to do just what you described.  I plan to save the tune it has, then upload the stock tune to see how it runs.

[Bixxer Bob]

Have a look here:

http://tigertriple.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 0363#80363 (http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/msg,80363#80363)

It might help....

[mhaserodt]

That does help.  So I'm suspecting the barometric pressure sensor might be part of the problem.  Long story short I know the the tube just below the elbow for the barometric pressure sensor was cracked when I bought it, I just didn't know what it was at that time.

That aside, I was able to spend some time with TuneECU.  The tune that was in there exactly matched the 126 tune.  There was no change when I downloaded the 126 tune to the ECU, and no real change when I tried 124.

I looked at it a little last night, but didn't actually change the tunes, or start the bike.  I was getting 3 errors then

P0230 Fuel Pump relay default
P0463 Fuel level sensor circuit high input
P1231 Fuel pump relay open circuit or short to ground

The fuel level sensor I expected.  I swapped out fuel senders and the one I have in there is from an '03, so I don't think it actually works in my '00.  To look at it, it's a different design.  I cleared the codes when I was done.

Today I swapped tunes, started the bike, etc. and was getting

P0113 Inlet air temperature sensor open circuit or short circuit to battery
P0122 Throttle Position sensor low voltage

in addition to the three above.  I cleared codes, then tried the 124 tune.  After that I only got P0463 and P0122.  The other codes never came back, even when I switched back to the 126 tune, and ran the bike several times.

So it could be a TPS issue, but I don't understand why it only showed up after I changed tunes.  It seems like if it was bad, it would have thrown a code before last night, and I would have picked it up the first time.  Unless it just happened to have a problem sometime between last night and today.