Poor running

[chairhead]

Bugger, I just noticed it's an 03. You have a MC1000 ECU? (Two plugs....)

Yeah,
two plugs, Ive looked at the Tune ECU site but am a bit unsure as to what to download  , I have found the tune for my bike and saved it to my Downloads , but is there anything else I should download ?.

I also just bought one of these http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=32

[blacktiger]

Valve clearances, followed by TPS reset(Tuneecu), followed by reset adaptions(Tuneecu), followed by check tickover speed setting(Tuneecu) (shouldn't have changed), followed by throttle body balance (you'll need vacuum gauges). With the airbox off look at the Idle Control Valve to see if it moves when you blip the throttle. And check the hoses going to and from the ICV for cracks and connection.
Basically give it a top end 12K service.

[Sin_Tiger]

And they are cheap on ebay if you're happy to cut and join the connector wires.

Mine is like all the others I've got unscrew out the pipe and unplug out of the loom or are we getting our lamba's crossed!!

I think you might be  you can run without a Lambda, you just need to tell the ECU your running in open loop. I do this on my Thruxton.

Back OT, if it's going through fuel like that it has to be absolutely stinking at the back end and the only way it can get in there is through the injectors. Was this sudden or gradual?

I think BB is on the right track though, no sense in trying to second guess, methodical is the way.

[chairhead]

Valve clearances, followed by TPS reset(Tuneecu), followed by reset adaptions(Tuneecu), followed by check tickover speed setting(Tuneecu) (shouldn't have changed), followed by throttle body balance (you'll need vacuum gauges). With the airbox off look at the Idle Control Valve to see if it moves when you blip the throttle. And check the hoses going to and from the ICV for cracks and connection.
Basically give it a top end 12K service.

Valve clearances have been checked, indeed it was the first thing I did, the Tune ECU  stuff I will do once I get my head around what I need to download, I have vacuum gauges but need the extra long hoses and fuel pump connector to actually balance the bodies, IACV has been checked for cracks etc.

[chairhead]

I think you might be  you can run without a Lambda, you just need to tell the ECU your running in open loop. I do this on my Thruxton.

Back OT, if it's going through fuel like that it has to be absolutely stinking at the back end and the only way it can get in there is through the injectors. Was this sudden or gradual?

I think BB is on the right track though, no sense in trying to second guess, methodical is the way.

It is stinking at the back and happened all of a sudden 

[Sin_Tiger]

Going out on a limb here but my guess is it's electrical rather than the injectors themselves, they rarely go off suddenly.

[Bixxer Bob]

Bugger, I just noticed it's an 03. You have a MC1000 ECU? (Two plugs....)

Yeah,
two plugs, Ive looked at the Tune ECU site but am a bit unsure as to what to download  , I have found the tune for my bike and saved it to my Downloads , but is there anything else I should download ?.

I also just bought one of these http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=32

Just download the latest version of TuneECU here: http://www.tuneecu.com/TuneECU_En/links.html

Install it, plug into the bike with the lead you just bought (a good spare battery jumped to the bike battery will ensure you have enough volts to proceed successfully.  12.5vminimum remember) and establish the connection. 

Do the IACV check. (Listen for it moving up and down).

Save your map to your laptop, then blow in the fresh map.  Start it up and let it warm up, do the adaptation I described earlier, then do the TPS reset.  At this point it should at least be ticking over even if a bit lumpy.  Now you can balance the throttle bodies.

If you can't get this far, my money is still on a sticky injector.  I agree with Sin that they rarely go wrong and even then only gradually, but if it's sticking open for some reason that would give you the horribly rich problem.  I have come across one instance of this in the past but I think it was on the RAT site.  Swapping them round is fairly straight forward and will instantly give you a result, one way or another. 

[chairhead]

Going out on a limb here but my guess is it's electrical rather than the injectors themselves, they rarely go off suddenly.

That's why I changed the loom, but to my frustration the problem persists, but with help from you guys we shall overcome 

[chairhead]

Bugger, I just noticed it's an 03. You have a MC1000 ECU? (Two plugs....)

Yeah,
two plugs, Ive looked at the Tune ECU site but am a bit unsure as to what to download  , I have found the tune for my bike and saved it to my Downloads , but is there anything else I should download ?.

I also just bought one of these http://www.lonelec.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_7&products_id=32

Just download the latest version of TuneECU here: http://www.tuneecu.com/TuneECU_En/links.html

Install it, plug into the bike with the lead you just bought (a good spare battery jumped to the bike battery will ensure you have enough volts to proceed successfully.  12.5vminimum remember) and establish the connection. 

Do the IACV check. (Listen for it moving up and down).

Save your map to your laptop, then blow in the fresh map.  Start it up and let it warm up, do the adaptation I described earlier, then do the TPS reset.  At this point it should at least be ticking over even if a bit lumpy.  Now you can balance the throttle bodies.

If you can't get this far, my money is still on a sticky injector.  I agree with Sin that they rarely go wrong and even then only gradually, but if it's sticking open for some reason that would give you the horribly rich problem.  I have come across one instance of this in the past but I think it was on the RAT site.  Swapping them round is fairly straight forward and will instantly give you a result, one way or another.

Thanks Mate, I will swap them round and see what happens, thinking about it im sure they were running all the same whilst I had the Actia plugged in, but it wont hurt to change them.

[Bixxer Bob]

Hmm,  if they were all running ok when you used the Activia, it's unlikely that they are the problem then.  They don't generally show as intermittent faults. 

I did a bit more reading tonight, and it seems that some types of FI will run horribly rich if the engine temp sensor is knackered.  Without it the ECU can't tell the engine is up to temp and so sticks to the warm up map (equivalent to running with the choke out all the time).  I think I mentioned this earlier, however, you'd expect to get fault code P0119.  Do you have a copy of the Triumph manual?  If so you need to do the checks on page 9.60.

 

[Chris Canning]

Going out on a limb here but my guess is it's electrical rather than the injectors themselves, they rarely go off suddenly.

Me too the fact it runs on start up,and hence why I'd want to disconnect the lamba I know guys who have run bikes with the lamba out for years,it's just a process of elimination I'd be looking at mapping when all else fails,because the way start up is described is normal and how mine is,so there's a lot that's right!!!

Something is either pissing fuel into the motor like an injector or it's(ecu)is  being told to piss fuel into the motor,I've known maps change but not go belly up like that.

Also if you go through the process of start up ie high revs then it settles,turn it off before it stops switch it off and try again to see if it'll start Ok like the first time,even though mine has been pretty good over the years an exact science it ain't and even now sometimes it'll start up like a bag of spanners and I'll switch it off and start again,I realise yours is more than that but you need a starting point.

[Bixxer Bob]

I'm not suggesting it's mapping Chris, except if the battery voltage is low and buggering up the trims. But that's an easy first check.

If you look again, you'll see I'm on about checking the engine temp sensor.  The bike always starts by add the values from the enrichment map to the fuel map which is the same as having the choke out on carbs. In a few seconds the revs settle down as the ECU works out where it is having read all the sensors.  It then monitors the engine temp as that comes up. As it rises the values in the enrichment map get smaller until at full temp the added value is zero.

If the engine temp sensor is knackered it'll start ok but will overfuel as it gets warm because the ECU thinks the engine is still cold.  However, that woukd make all three pots rich but this scenario it's only one pot so there could be two faults. As you rightly say, process of elimination and easy stuff first.

[Chris Canning]

Another thread and at the risk of everyone rushing out and buying a R/R certainly worth a thought sadly the day after fitting to the bike it has been short of a shock so I'll comment more if I ever get to ride it again but it certainly pepped the bike up.

[Bixxer Bob]

Agreed, that's why I thought reg rec at the top of this post, it pepped up yours and fixed mine when I had issues similar to CH last summer (would fire up but wouldn't tick over and ran really rough - eventually blamed low volts and inability to store trims when turning off) but he's got the added issue of one really rich pot which ordinarily would point to a stuck injector. Thinking about it, even if the reg rec is borderline, a really good car battery jumped across the bike battery woukd give enough volts long enough to prove this one way or another.  If it starts and runs, even lumpy, as soon as it's warm do an adaptation to sort the trims then switch off. Let it store the trims (you'll hear a click from the relay when it's done, about 5 secs after turning off). If it runs better when next started we're on the right path.
With it being as rough as it is, the adaptation might need several cycles. After warm up and pulling the clutch, blip to 3000 revs, let drop to tickover, wait 30 secs, blip throttle to 3000 revs, let it drop and so on..... keeping the clutch pulled the whole time.

[chairhead]

I appreciate all your comments and advice guys,

I went to the bike yesterday and checked the Battery voltage, it is low and its now on charge, Im waiting for the new to arrive.
Before id finished for the day I noticed fluid under the bike, it was petrol, with all that's been going on the tank has been off and on numerous occasions,
I thought I'd damaged the O ring on the top fuel pipe so I changed it with one on the 04 I bought, but even after that its not sealing properly, as soon as I switch the ignition on it pisses out, so I think im going to have to change the female fuel coupling too...........Im slowly losing the will to live    :icon_wink: