Talk me down, man....

[Dr. Mordo]

Thanks for the info.  My bike intermittantly drops one cylinder, so I am gathering info trying to diagnose it.  I replaced the coils, but I'm gonna throw some new parts in the carbs and put in a P/U coil to see what happens.

Good luck.

[steammoto]

I've been reading this thread(and the site) in an attempt to better understand the work  involved in fixing and maintaining the steamer. Have learned much(thanks to all) during the process.

A question for the pundits. During this discussion part replacement seems to be the overall consensus.  I was wondering if making adjustments such as carb synching and checking if the p/u was in or out of spec is the first line of defense when looking for a remedy for dropping a cylinder or engine cutting out. Or do the above produres have no relation to the problem(s) at hand.

[Dr. Mordo]

My P/U coil measures in spec.  The issue is that the bike run poorly when hot, so it is difficult to test to see what the problem is.  Carb synching is an interesting question, that honestly I hadn't considered.  For me, the fact that the bike runs perfectly until warm makes me think a carb sync issue is less likely, but I could certainly be wrong.

[Mustang]

My P/U coil measures in spec.  The issue is that the bike run poorly when hot, so it is difficult to test to see what the problem is.  Carb synching is an interesting question, that honestly I hadn't considered.  For me, the fact that the bike runs perfectly until warm makes me think a carb sync issue is less likely, but I could certainly be wrong.

Yep cold the little fu**er's usually ohm out fine at .6 . when that motor heats up things go south , usually they will just up and die requiring a cool down before the motor will start again , but ...

I just replaced one yesterday on a friends bike that would only screw up AFTER the motor was shut off with the key  :shock: ran fine until you stopped it then would not restart at all when hot . changed the sensor and it fired right up and run's like a trooper .
I usually keep 1 on hand as a spare .  I have replaced them on all of my steamers at least once .

[mcd]

Installed the new coils today and Shazzam!  The chick magnet has been remagnetized!

[mcd]

Steamoto wrote:  A question for the pundits. During this discussion part replacement seems to be the overall consensus.  I was wondering if making adjustments such as carb synching and checking if the p/u was in or out of spec is the first line of defense when looking for a remedy for dropping a cylinder or engine cutting out. Or do the above produres have no relation to the problem(s) at hand.[/quote]

My personal experience over the years with carb sync is that they come out of sync if someone messes with them, and that if a cylinder occaisionally drops it's not a sync issue.  Could be some crap in a carb bowl, tho, if you're convinced it's a carb issue.

[Mustang]

Installed the new coils today and Shazzam!  The chick magnet has been remagnetized!

Nice !
You should have a much happier idle now too !

[LN]

Morning all. First post for me, as I'm not currently a Steamer owner, but was lazily eyeing up my options for an imminent purchase, and came across a Tiger for NZ$6k at the following link...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=199726904

My question for y'all is, (after reading as many posts as possible to better understand what I'd be getting myself into), is there any chance at all that a 96 Steamer that's done 60k (and already had the sprag done, but not the DAR) is actually going to give me any time out in the fresh air, or should I simply give my wallet to my favorite mechanic now and go watch some TV, and save all that mucking round negotiating a purchase for what really does sound like a bike fat money pit.

It's a great looking bike and I don't want to be just another Jap bike rider, but I'm not particularly mechanically minded, (and damn lazy to boot), and it really does seem that most of the discussions going on, relate to how much time energy and money they cost to keep on the road.
Is that a fair call, or should I man up, and get all British on it?

I've previously owned a GS450, a GSXR400, a couple of XRs and currently a TT600, none of which were/are maintained particularly well...

Any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms of my lax approach to maintenance welcome...! :)

[coachgeo]

all very intereting.  

This thread seems to tell me the 97 Tiger I bought for 600 buks cause it likes to drop a cylinder till 3000rpm.... is.. a brother to the ones with problems in these threads.  Possible fixable with a coil and pickup and carb cleaning.  Might do that till I find the diesel engine I want to swap with.

Any more updates on the troubled bikes in this thread. Except one of you it's been a few months since the last post in here who were wrenching on their bikes.

[JetdocX]

My problems are never-ending.  I take one thing apart and find six more things AFU.

[leaky]

Have read much of the info re missfires etc with interest since I have similar (identical ?) problem (95 Tiger on 35K miles). This is first post so please excuse any 'protocol' dropoffs but would really appreciate some help as beginning to go up the wall......

Bike bought as non runner with broken sprag. (that's another story) . Whilst engine out, I set valves and cleaned out carbs. Replaced badly worn needles and jets and cleaned everthing. Float heights as manual. All idle mix screws 2 turns out (not quite sure of original setting as had hell of job removing them to replace Orings and clean out passages)

Problem now is missfire just off idle to ~4K with pops/bangs mainly out RH silencer. Carbs balanced OK but doesn't seem to have responded (as regards smooth running) to balancing as well as expected ? Plug chop after holding at ~2K (throttle ~1/8th open ?) shows all 3 plugs look uniformly sooty (new plugs). Bike starts and runs fine at idle, starts misbehaving at ~1.5 to 2K but fine above 4K. Drivable but just feels like very badly balanced carbs ie lack of pull or advance isn't coming on when pulling away.

Suspecting electrics and not trusting plug colours switched out each coil in turn for new one out of pure optimism - no improvement.

Checked pickup resistance ~540R although remeasured when stone cold gives ~500R - seems within limits.  Did get one initial value of ~200R but put this down to multimeter 'warming up'....hmmmmm...and couldn't repeat it later no matter how wires were pulled shaken etc

Wiring from pick up to ignitor box checks out OK.

Tried leaning out idle mix (assuming screws go in for leaner) - 1/2 turn no improvement, further 1/4 and won't idle well. Plug chop at 2K still shows sooty plugs smelling of fuel. Didn't try screwing out.

Carb intake rubbers starting to crack (surface only?) and will be replaced before next startup.

Am just about to replace pickup thinking this would be obvious cause of problem on all 3 cylinders but would appreciate if someone could please confirm correct needle positions - I have clips in middle slot (ie 3rd from top or bottom of the five) - this is where they were when I took apart but guess UK and US bikes may be different - manual don't seem to provide answer. Bike has standard exhausts & new original airbox/filter. None of the emiisions gumph.  One plenum blocked and one open as factory. Mains and needle jets are std sizes as manual.

Also, bike has green ignitor box - notice that my parts catalogue says 'do not use' !! and gives superceded part number.  Is this telling me something ? Are the green ones prone to packing in ? Could part of  the advance curve go off but the high speed bit be OK ? Don't want to butcher the RH cover just yet....
 
Rebuild started January (yes, I am that slow) and was originally planning to use for long trip this summer..........aaarrrghhh..... Don't want to pour any more money into this...may never get the new pads worn in at this rate.

any pointers much appreciated - apologies if I've failed to find the  posts with the answers already in.

[Mustang]

what happens when you screw the pilots out past 2 turns  ? It should die like it did when screwed in .

The mikunis have an oring on the vacuum tube  seat that I believe will cause the syptoms you describe as they get old and cracked

when you say you changed the coils out with new  one at a time what exactly do you mean ? Because your problem if I was a bettting man would be the coils , if they are marked GILL I would bin them now and replace with Nologys or PVL's

The pickup sensor or crank trigger if you will , usually just plain up and die instantly when hot and the bike will run normal again when cooled down until it heats up again and then dies . It should ohm out at .6 ohms and like the coils even though it ohms out fine it can still be junk . BTW the coils should ohm out at .6 also

[leaky]

cheers for the reply and thoughts

When I had the carbs apart I replaced the vac offtake orings under the carb tops and  checked the diaphragms for splits but will check diaphragms again. (missfire also there when I run off slave fuel tank and have vacuum gauges connected).  Also replaced the 2 orings on each  float assembly. Only ones I missed were the ones trapped under the slide housing/needle jets since I didn't realise they were there until reassembly and couldn't face another trip to dealers....

regarding the coils - I bought a new PVL and swapped it out with the originals one at a time...I was expecting to find an improvement when I hit a dud one. Optimistic thinking again that if coils were the trouble, only one would have gone.  Is it likely more than one fails at a time ? Can one take another down with it ?

Important bit I forgot to mention (doh!!!) is that just sometimes the missfire isn't there and revs rise and fall smoothly with no hesitation.  Few minutes later we're back to 'normal' missfiring. This doesn't happen often but makes me think thermal problem (eg pickup heating up and malfunctioning, intake rubbers opening up etc).  

Other observation when riding the thing  is that missfire sometimes appears to improve slightly if you pull the  choke is slightly on (but won't idle well as expected) .....don't understand this at all when the plugs seem to be saying it's too rich. (Have checked that the choke plungers are going properly home when choke is off)  Any idea what this is telling me ?

Plan to have everything back together this weekend (new intake rubbers and pickup) and will try running pilot screws out along and do compression test just to check.......will post any interesting developments......may try dropping needles a notch if no change. At least can do this without taking carbs off again I hope.

Problem is now disease is spreading in garage.....battery on MuZ expired this morning ......unfortunately didn't prevent me making it in to work....

thanks for the suggestions....will keep plugging away.....

[Mustang]

sounds like you may have bad carb boots and are sucking air on the intakes .........................and /or coil problems as well .

When mine had similar symptoms to yours it was the coils going they are bad at firing under a good compression load .ie second or third gear at 20 mph and give her some throttle , mine would lose a cylinder every time until 4500 rpm then it would come back alive with a vengeance
replaced all three coils with nologys and the tigger has never ran better , even from day one when new .

[Milton]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I know how frustrating it can be having a bike that you have to put as much time into repairing as riding. I grew up on the old Meridian Triumphs and they left me stranded more than once.

I don't mean to crow but I just got back from a 4400 mile trip to Seattle and up through B.C. and back home to Denver on the Tiger without any trouble what so ever. I did lose my high beams on the 3rd to last day of the trip. I was going to replace the coils with Nology's just to be sure I wasn't stranded because of one, and JetDoc, I did have along a spare igniter as per your suggestion. I couldn't replace the coils as they arrived the day before I left but I did have them with me. Tiger ran between 42 and 54 mpg depending on how I was riding. Rode between Snowville and Boise at 90 mph the whole way and got 42 (was a 725 mile day). The saddle on the Tiger, at least for me, is a misery but I put up with it (is a Corbin).

I'm really impressed with my Tiger and I wish your's was doing better. I know they are a far superior bike to the old Meridian's but it is just no fun when its your bike that is not working as well as it should be. I hope you get everything sorted out.

KTM's are a great bike if a little expensive and the 900 is awfully tall.

Hang in there.

Milton S.