After a month in the shop, my bike still will not run...

[flux]

My '02 with roughly 35K miles will not stay running.  It starts just like always but will run (poorly) with throttle applied.  

If it were carbed instead of fuel injected I would say the carbs needed cleaning.

Here's what we've done and checked...

*Valves are now all in spec (four were too tight).

*Throttle bodies synced.  

*Fuel filter replaced.  Bike has plenty of fresh fuel.

*Charging system is good.

*No kinked fuel hoses or other lines.

*Replaced dry-rotted vacuum lines.

*Cleaned injectors.

*Changed oil.

*New airfilter.

*We fitted a new IACV (stepper motor)

*Replaced spark plugs.  They did not look too bad.

*Compression and leakdown tests are all positive.  

We actually have a friend's 2006 in the shop to get some stuff put on so we took advantage and:

*Swapped ECU which had no effect.

*Swapped fuel injectors which had no effect.

Any ideas?

[Mustang]

try the coil paks from the other bike .............triumph coils are notorious for corrosion on  the wires on the HT side inside the sealed coil . they eventually corrode all the way thus seperating the wires inside the coil . then the arc has to jump the break until the break in the wire  becomes too big for the spark  to jump .

when steamer coils go bad the symptoms are very similar and you would swear to god on a stack of bibles that the carbs are fooked but it's the coils

[coachgeo]

I'm with Mustang conceptually, not that my input is worth a penny.  Just has always seemed to me.. and you started looking this direction to, it appears  if working on fuel stuff does not solve a poorly running engine issue... odds are good it's in the ignition.  So keep digging into ignition trouble shooting now.

Hope you get it sorted soon.  Been there with frustating issues like that. Kudo's to your friend.

[EvilBetty]

*Tried to reload tune, only one would stick... the aftermarket exhaust tune... I have a TOR can fitted... this is bothersome...

THAT sounds characteristic of a weak battery or battery connection problem, and a badly loaded tune could cause all kinds of problems.

BUT the fact that you had a 2006 ECU which obviously had a good tune should have eliminated that.  That is unless the 2006 ECU tune won't work right on a 2003.  The 2006 has an updated EFI system on it.  It's still the  the French Sagem injector system, but using the 1050 cases the engine breathes different.  I know for sure the EFI map was changed from 2005 to 2006.

Is this a Triumph shop doing this work?

[flux]

Thanks for the advice.  Mustang, I will suggest the coils to him.

EB, yes, this is a Triumph shop.  Although, they canned the Triumph go-to guy 2 weeks ago that originally started working on my bike my buddy is admittedly still new to Triumph.    8)   I am pretty sure the battery is good as we checked the charging system and its fine, plus I changed the battery less than 6 months ago.  I will check the connections though.  

Thanks guys, this has been an irritating experience.

[Bixxer Bob]

All 955i Tigers have the same base tune, it's only the fuel maps that are different, depending on VIN and pipe.  However, the early Tigers, up to 2000, had a different base - not that this matters as you used a 2006.  This applies to all models up until the first 1050 which of course has the Keihin ECM, not the Sagem.

EB is right that a corrupt map will cause all sorts of running issues, as will a badly modified fuel map (I've had both) but the good ECM proves this is not the issue.  As you've done about everything else, Mustang's coils idea seem to be a good bet.  

One other place you might look is the tube from the airbox to the ECM.  Just disconnect it from the airbox and blow down it.  If it's clear then it's ok.  If it's blocked it'll give false airbox pressure readings to the ECM.  Still shouldn't run this bad though... :roll:

EDIT: Just read through your post again and you say it won't take a tune?  Hook up a known good battery and try again.  As EB said (and this is what caused a whole lot of trouble for me) low volts will cause a tune to fail to load, and a failed load can corrupt the existing map.  My dealer said mine wouldn't take a tune and needed some shop time.  I rode it home and rode it back to the shop after he'd tried to load a tune and failed, only to find it wouldn't run at all below 2,000 rpm and needed loads of throttle to keep it spinning.  When I went to pick it up it didn't run at all, needed to trailer it home.  A fresh battery and a new tune, care of Tuneboy, and I'd  fixed it myself.  

Also, I know you said the other ECM didn't make any difference but you'd need to know what the other fuel trims are compared with yours, particularly the long term fuel trim.  For instance, mine runs +4.18%, anything less than 3.5 and it won't tick over.

[flux]

Thanks Bob, I will let you know how that works out.  We actually replaced that tube from the airbox to the ECU so that can't be it.  I will double check the battery on Monday to see if that is the deal.  

Cheers

[EvilBetty]

The 2006 we borrowed parts from is not a 1050, FWIW.  It's a 955i like Stretch's was.

The 2006's are 955i's but they use engine cases from the 1050 engine.

Or are you saying you have a titled 2006 but it was manufactured before the design change?

My 2005 was actually made in 2004 and has all the older fuel system parts on it.

[Bixxer Bob]

The 2006 we borrowed parts from is not a 1050, FWIW.  It's a 955i like Stretch's was.

The 2006's are 955i's but they use engine cases from the 1050 engine.

Or are you saying you have a titled 2006 but it was manufactured before the design change?

My 2005 was actually made in 2004 and has all the older fuel system parts on it.

Nevertheless, it's a Sagem ECM (not the 1050 Keihin) so it should run assuming the trims are about right.  I ran mine on a Sagem with a Daytona tune in it.  It wasn't brilliant, but it did run better than my corrupt Tiger map.  the Daytona is the same base tune as the Tiger, just different fuel maps.

[flux]

The 2006's are 955i's but they use engine cases from the 1050 engine.

Oh, I got it now.  I did not know that!   :oops:

[EvilBetty]

Nevertheless, it's a Sagem ECM (not the 1050 Keihin) so it should run assuming the trims are about right.  I ran mine on a Sagem with a Daytona tune in it.  It wasn't brilliant, but it did run better than my corrupt Tiger map.  the Daytona is the same base tune as the Tiger, just different fuel maps.

Very possible.  I have no idea how much the porting has changed and how much that might affect the use of a particular map or tune.

[Bixxer Bob]

Good point, but the Daytona has 40 bhp more than the Tiger, mainly down to cams and head, and it still ran on that map.  Changed the long term trim half a percent on my own map and it didn't.

Not trying to get into a row with ya  :D

[EvilBetty]

No not all all.  Freely admitting that I don't completely understand the different systems.  It his area I humbly bow to your knowledge :)

[Bixxer Bob]

Cheers!!

I'm by no means an expert either,  just scratching the surface of what goes on inside these things (but still know more than my local Triumph techs) , but collective brain power should overcome.... eventually.

I symathise with Flux though, he's the one with the real problem, and as a wise man recently said to me when I said I didn't want to become a consultant / contractor back where I work now when I leave next month, "Helping with the problem isn't the same as owning it".

[Advwannabe]

Hey Flux,

No wisdom to add, just my thoughts and hopes that you get it sorted. All this time without a properly running bike is not fun.