Fuse fury and funny moments

[avo]

Hello, Found this forum recently after looking for some advice on an electrical problem. It caught me out good style today so I'm shamelessly starting out with post no1 begging for advice.

Went for a ride today with 2 friends and a problem I've had on and off for a while reared its head good and proper.

Long story but a while back I purchased some cheap fuses of the ebay variety. Over time it seems the 30 amp fuse in the fusebox must have had a poor contact and has been arcing causing the burning of the contacts seen in this pic.



whilst the fuses didn't actually blow they would eventually melt. Im not sure what the 30 amp fuse in the box does (fuse 2 in the next pic)



I'm pretty sure it's part of the charging circuit as today after about 90 miles I noticed the rev counter and the speedo stop working whilst riding and as soon as I stopped the bike (Tiger 955i) had no power to start.

So after a not so great brainwave we manage to swap my battery with mates bike (Honda Pan) to try and get it going and jump start his bike. A little fiddling and mucking about saw my bike running and a pair of jump leads attached to his. No Joy! Seriously dead battery and tiger not producing enough juice to start his bike. In the meantime mate no 2 has developed a non starter as well (Triumph Sprint). So we have 2 very flat batteries and 1 rapidly losing it's charge in my bike.

Quick swap again and the Pan is running. Mange to start the Sprint with the leads and after 10 mins of charing mine of it were off again. Stopping every hour to give it 10 mins got us home again.

I will be performing this mod very soon.

http://tigertriple.com/forum/index.php/topic,3843

I also planned on removing the 2 wires from the dodgy fuse box connector and installing a good quality in line fuse holder to bypass the box.

The mod mentions that it bypasses one of the fuses

No.  All you are doing is shortening the wiring between the RR and the battery.  You eliminate 2 connectors, 1 fuse, multiple connections and about 18" of wire.  You are also shortening the ground considerably.

Sorry, I do not have a wiring diagram.  Would need to show you in person.

Does anyone know which fuse is bypassed as if it's the one in the box then theres no need for me to mess about putting an inline in.

Oh and PS. If anyone has any idea whats up with the sprint then that would be great too. It's had a new battery about 2 weeks ago as this was thought to be the problem. It also did a 300+ mile run last weekend with no probs.

Many thanks from a very puzzled tiger owner. I'm getting fed up of my mate with the Honda sending me pics of aa and aaa batteries asking if I need any!!!

[Mustang]

you probably have more going on than just the fuse issue ..................you and the sprint both more than likely have stator and regulator/rectifier failures
it's pretty common on the 955's

[avo]

Right then, I'll be testing the R/R and the Stator tonight. I'll post the results. Cheers

[avo]

Ok so a couple of tests with the multimeter didn't look great so I pulled the cover and found....



Oh dear.

Next question. Whats a suitable (reasonably priced) alternative and should I replace the the R/R as well. Anyone got any ideas on how to test one of those without the engine running as any results with voltage would be skewed by the dodgy stator.

Many Thanks.

PS. I'll still be doing the charging mod seeing as it's off the road for a couple of days at least. Looks like I'll be at the mercy of public transport for a bit.

[Bixxer Bob]

Avo, help us out and fill in a bit of your profile, at least which continent you're on :lol:

I'm guessing you're Brit though from the phrasing so try these folks:

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/ (http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/)

I have one on my Blackbird and it's doing ok.  It's worth looking for someone local to rewind your old one  though... I could have saved about 50% of the cost on the 'Bird.

[avo]

Thanks Bixxer. I was in a bit of a rush last night so just entered the minimal info. Yes I'm in the UK. Cheshire (north west of england) I've noticed the main contingent is based in the states and I wish I could get parts as cheap as you (ah your in england as well!!) the other guys can get them. I've already seen the electrex website. £90 is the price which seems ok against the stupid money triumph would want.

I do about 6-7k miles a year on the tiger so i need to get to on the road asap.

I'll have a look for a local firm that will do a rewind even if it means that it's a spare ready to go.

I'm just concerned that the culprit may well be a dodgy rectifier and the same will occur again if its not sorted. I'll be testing the voltage output from the rectifier as soon as the sator has been replaced.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the replacement though.

[Mustang]

I'm just concerned that the culprit may well be a dodgy rectifier and the same will occur again if its not sorted. I'll be testing the voltage output from the rectifier as soon as the sator has been replaced.

usually the regulator / rectifier needs replacing also or you will just be looking at another melted stator in short order

[Bixxer Bob]

At the risk of going off at a tangent (so why break old habits???) I just had a charging issue on my 'Bird.  After blowing a couple of headlamp bulbs I checked the charging rate and got 18 volts across the battery at tickover.  I was just about to blow £90 on a reg rec when I remembered I changed them as a pair last time.  A quick try of the old one gave 14.5 volts so it's fitted.  Theory at the time I changed them was, like the Tiger, the genny coils run in a very hot enclosed space in a small amount of very hot oil.  Honda's gennys - like most - aren't the best but the replacement was Eletrex.  Anyway, the old reg is back in so we'll see what happens, blow the new(er) coils or will it last........

[avo]

How do I test the R/R

I've seen some info on the web and I've tested between all 3 yellow wires (AC Input from stator) and get an open circuit i.e. not short. I've tested between the 2black and 2reds (DC output / earth) to the yellow and get open circuit (no short) The red to red and black to black show closed circuit, I believe this is normal.

Do I have a bad R/R? They are not cheap to replace so I'm looking for some positive indication that it's knackered.

Or do I just wait for the new stator to arrive and test the voltage output at the red and blacks to confirm all is ok?  :?

It seems bixxer may have replaced a good R/R when he also replaced the stator. So is it possible for a stator to burn out without the R/R been faulty?

I will be installing an Ice bucket around the R/R in future  :lol:

[Bixxer Bob]

Best article I've found is here:

http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/s ... ostcount=1 (http://www.bikersoracle.com/vfr/forum/showpost.php?p=948444&postcount=1)

Also, Electrex do their own diagnostic chart which might be worth putting in a sticky somewhere;  Mustang???

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Tro ... G-&-RR.pdf (http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Troubleshooting-3P-PMG-&-RR.pdf)

[avo]

thanks for that bixxer. my multimeter had a diode test facility so I'll give it a try. I just want to be sure its bust before I fork out circa. £100 for another one.

I've also seen yamaha fjr regulator / rectifiers for £80 or so on ebay but I'd need to buy the plugs and adapt connectors to fit. These are supposed to be a good replacement.

I'll let you know how I get on over the next few days.

[oxnsox]

The http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/pdfs/Troubleshoo...-PMG-&-RR.pdf looks pretty good, as it's also based around using a simple multimeter tool.

Your RR may be reusable, as Bixxers was, and if you caught things early enough it should be fine. However if it ran for too long in a stressed state then its longevity will be affected.

[avo]

Ok so I've spent the day in the garage......

Removing old gasket remains of stator cover
Cutting a new gasket.......took ages
replacing stator with the new one from electrex world
testing r/r. still can't find any prob with it
doing the sasquatch mod
putting it all back together

I now get 14.5v at the battery at idle!!!  

To answer one of my original questions. Fuse 2 is bypassed by the mod and is no longer required.

I'm just hoping that the R/R is still ok and that it won't lead to a repeat failure. In the meantime I will be getting the old stator rewound. Localish garage will do it for £60. I did have a quote from west country windings of £125!!!

The  only other question is how many beers can I now drink before falling down.
 

Many thanks to the guys who have posted replies and advice. Otherwise I feel i'd have been tearing my hair out if I had any.

Cheeers

[Tigger_rider]

Hi All  I moved my regulator to the outside, just behind and below the side cover. Mounted it on a piece of .25 alum plate ubolted to the frame. Had to trim a small amount on edge of cover to clear plate. Ran the wires directly from stator to regulator. Used some fine strand 10ga  wire I had from a crane job I did a while ago. Cut the wires at stator and regulator as short as possible to get rid of the stock crap wire. Grounded (earthed for you English types) directly to the battery.  14.5 volts at idle with both sets of lights on.   Sasq mod done also.  OLY

[avo]

Tiger_rider, can you post any pics of your R/R mounting. I'm looking to do something similar and would love to see whats possible.