Regarding Charging System Failures

[Tom Herold]

Okay, Ricks Motorsports will be my parts provider for anything I need in the future.  They're good people with good customer service, and stand by their products.

I called first thing this morning and told them what happend. Since their parts are covered for 12 months from date of purchase without mileage limitations, they had no problem with replacements.

I told them about having money on a pending trip next week and how I needed next-day, or two-day, air delivery. Again, no problem.

Normally, they want their parts back before sending replacements, but were willing to charge me for the new parts, give me a return number for the old parts and will refund my money when I send them back. Good stuff, and rare in todays market place.

I'm going to strip the Tiger down on Friday night and prep everything so all I have to do is drop in the new parts and bolt it back together.  While I'm in there I'm going to move the rectifier out from behind the tank to an area where I can get to it easier and it can breath better. I'll maintain the Sasquatch mod, clip off the connectors and use butt connectors with solder again.

I've come to the conclusion if this problem persists I'm going to start looking at the V-Strom 1000, or a Tiger 1050,  as a viable replacement.  I love my 955i Tiger, but I need better reliability.

[Tom Herold]

Curiousity has me wanting to ask those of you who've experienced the stator an rectifier problem if you've found a sizeable amount of oil behind the stator cover?

If you've read the other thread Dewd started, you've seen where the good people at Custom Rewind attribute the stator failure to oil seepage into the area and subsequent break down of the protective coating on the stator windings.

My last stator failure revealed about a tablespoon amount. As I rip into the stator cover again tonight, I'm anticipating finding oil again despite having replaced the seal.

Anyone else find oil in there?

[Stretch]

About a tablespoon of oil in mine each time I've had the cover off.  

This is the first time I've ever heard that there's not supposed be oil behind the alternator cover.  But the dudes at custom rewind know their business better than any of us second-guessers.  If they say that exposure to oil breaks down the insulating varnish on the stator wiring, I'll believe it.  The high-temp epoxy coating on Dewd's new rewind sounds like a great idea, and I believe I'll send in my old Triumph part for the same rewind and treatment.

[dewd]

When I removed my stator cover, there was much more than a tablespoon.  I'd guess 3/4 to a full cup.  It made a good mess on the garage floor for sure.  I didn't go any farther than replacing the stator, so I didn't try to inspect or replace seals.  (maybe I should inspect more closely?)

Kurt at Custom rewind had heard of this before about the Triumph triples, and also Excelsior Henderson. (I think that's who he said)  He was puzzled about why a stator would be designed to operate in a wet environment. "But it happens", he says.

Bixxer Bobb--Custom Rewind is $85.00 including return shipping, no warranty.

[Tom Herold]

Ricks delivered as promised, the parts came in via UPS this afternoon and I started in on the component replacement. Again.....

I decided to relocate the rectifier to the open space between the tank and rear of the engine. Not ideal, but far better than pinched between the tank and frame. Obviously it's closer to the engine and its heat, but it's also positioned with the cooling fins outboard and in the breeze. And conveniently located for replacement too.... Anyway....

I fabricated a metal bracket that attached at the powerlet after drilling two small holes. The bracket also mounts at the old rectifier locations top hole so it's rigid, but the rectifier can be removed from the mount with ease, and without having to to remove anything else.

To get to my stator, I have to pull the left side engine guard, but that's a simple 4 bolt operation.

I'll finish the wiring tomorrow morning and balance the throttle bodies since I'll already have the tank off and didn't do them when I did the 24k maintenance.

We'll see how this goes.... my old stator's boxed up and addressed to Custom Rewinds, they'll get their hands on it next week.

[TigerTrax]

I just did the RR Rewire on my '06.

It takes about 2 hours if you have all your parts ready.

4 - F Blade end connects
2- feet Black 12 ga wire
2-feet Red  12 ga wire
1- 10/12 ga splice  (yellow)
1- 10/12 ga eyelet terminal ( yellow)
1- 30 amp fuse
1- HD 'in-line' fuse holder ( 30 amp/grn )
1/2 dz plastic wire ties.
Electrician tape.
Pencil soldering torch/flux/solder

Remove:
Seat - turns signals - handlebars & risers - 2 black plastic side covers -
Left Plastic side cover w/ seat lock - battery - battery box.

Lift tank and rest rear of tank on crossframe rear of battery.

Your harness connector is under the tank. On one side is 2 red wires and
2 blk wires. On the other side of the connector is brown wires.  Pull the harness connector apart; Wrap the side that has the brown wires with electrician tape and put a plastic wire tie around it.You don't need it.

Refer to the 'how-to' for the rest of the story.

It is much simpler with the tank lifted.

This is an easy thing to do. Even if you are 'iffy' about these things.
Just keep in mind.... YOU ARE NOT doing anything that cannot be
undone and 'hooked back up' as normal, simply be plugging the 2 harness connectors together again.

Thanks to Eric & Sasquatch.

[Tom Herold]

Back on the road now. Idle shows 13.2 and >3000 rpms are at 14.2.  

With my Piaa 35w driving lights I'm running at 12.8 at idle and 13.8 >3500rpm.

This is with both front headlights on also.  

I don't notice any more heat on my left leg where the RR was relocated to, and hope the cooling fins have a better chance at keeping the temps down now that they can breath a bit.

I can live with that. It looks like I'll be able to enjoy Deals Gap, the Cherohala and Great Smokies as planned and the fat Harley can stay at home in the garage!  :D

[Stretch]

Glad to hear it.  That R/R will be much happier with a bit of breeze carrying the heat away.

[oxnsox]

Have put something similar on the other post as well, but for those who haven't looked there (yet).

The Rectifier Regulator block is dissipating a lot of heat. At worst case it could be the entire Alternator output of around 350watts, but typically its should be a lot less though could easily be around half that figure.

Because the air temp, in any country, will be a lot lower than the heatsink on the RR then heat will be transferred away from the RR to the external air. Its this transfer you want to/need to optimise by improving the airflow over the RR package.

[2aRover]

Does the wire between the VR and battery get warm?

I performed the voltage fix on my Tiger a year ago.  Since, I've replaced the stator and VR.  A couple of weeks ago, the inline fuse holder between the VR and battery burned up.  The fuse didn't blow, but the plastic housing melted.  The contacts of the fuse holder and fuse were carbonized, creating an open circuit so the battery could not charge.  The VR is working as it should.  Obviously, I replaced the wire and fuse holder, but note that the wire gets warm.  I figure that with 30 amps going through a 12-gauge wire, it probably will get a little warm.  I also noted that the fuse holder doesn't make contact with a large part of the fuse blades.

Any experience with this?

[Stretch]

Does the wire between the VR and battery get warm?

I performed the voltage fix on my Tiger a year ago.  Since, I've replaced the stator and VR.  A couple of weeks ago, the inline fuse holder between the VR and battery burned up.  The fuse didn't blow, but the plastic housing melted.  The contacts of the fuse holder and fuse were carbonized, creating an open circuit so the battery could not charge.  The VR is working as it should.  Obviously, I replaced the wire and fuse holder, but note that the wire gets warm.  I figure that with 30 amps going through a 12-gauge wire, it probably will get a little warm.  I also noted that the fuse holder doesn't make contact with a large part of the fuse blades.

Any experience with this?

Yep, happened to me a couple months back.  It seems that even though the fuse is rated for 30 amps, the fuse holder is not, and the contacts got so hot that the fuse holder melted without blowing the fuse.

Here's my fix... Maxi Fuse and fuse holder.  Look at the size difference in the contacts, compared with a normal-size ATC fuse...



These fuse holders are capable of handling nearly 100 amps, and are available at car stereo stores.  The 30-amp fuse was 2 bucks, and the fuse holder ten.

I soldered everything together and the wire and fuse holder remain stone cold.  No problems now.

Be sure to keep a spare with your bike.  You can't find these fuses just anywhere.

[2aRover]

Thanks, Stretch.  I'd seen the maxi fuses at Schuck's, but no holders, and was under a time constraint to get to northern Idaho.  I'll check the local stereo joint for the good stuff and make the appropriate changes.

Cheers!  

[Stretch]

I'd seen the maxi fuses at Schuck's, but no holders

Same here.  I finally asked a bud at Autozone (where I bought the fuse), and he told me about the car stereo place.  Those cats with the 700-watt amplifiers use Maxi fuses with inline holders to power those stereo systems you can hear for miles.  The wire in the inline holder is the size of a pencil... 2 or 4 gauge.  No chance of it ever getting hot with a Tiger's 30-amp charging load.

[ridin gaijin]

I'm sure it must be a dumb idea to mount the Regulator/Rectifier to the outside of the forward sprocket housing--the black plastic piece that covers the gear that drives the chain. Otherwise someone would've thought of it. Right...?

My Tiger's in pieces. Having largely left maintenance to others, I don't have the resources for that now. As funding permits I'll do the Sasquatch mod, a new stator and R/R from Rick's if needed, a dash voltmeter, and a coolant flush. And Christ knows what else I'll think of while it's lying around with its guts all over the garage.

(--Theory being that Beltway commutes of 45+ min largely in 1st and 2nd gear aren't helping my beast's battery b/c of cooling fan needs (seems like it's always on) and overheating R/R. So anything I can do in the cooling area must be at least some good...)

Anyway. The wires to/from the R/R look almost exactly the right length. That housing is a good size and would be easy to drill through. The most obvious downside I can see is maybe kicking the R/R when shifting gears. But even so, some sort of open-air cage could be fabbed, no?

 :idea:  :?:

[Tom Herold]

If you go back to page 5, you'll see where I mounted the R/R to the powerlet bracket using a couple of stainless screws and a fabricated mount.  I think if you put your R/R down on the counter sprocket cover, it's really going to be in the way of your left foot.

I put down 1100 miles this last weekend (ride report in the works), riding in the rain and heat and can say I'm happy with the location, as well as the performance of the modifications. All weekend I was able to climb off the bike and put my hand on the rectifier without it feeling like it was overheating at any time, and I never felt any additional heat on my left leg.  According to my Datel meter, I was running a consistent 14.4 at the battery with the RPMs above 3000 even with my 35w Pia's on I was at 13.9/14.0. My idle voltage was 12.8 when warm.  

It may not be the prettiest, but it's functional and that's good enough for me.

The Maxi Fuse is the only way to go with the Sasquatch mod. With teh 10ga 30A inline fuse holder I picked up at Auto Zone, it quickly overheated and failed to properly charge the battery. When I went to the Maxi Fuse, I also upgraded to 8ga wire from the R/R wires to the battery, now things are charging the way they're supposed to and they hardly get hot at all.

The bike's still on probation. It knows it and is on its best behavior.....  I had a great weekend of riding..... time will tell.....